So. Let us consider The Pedant for a moment.
Socially dominant. Goes out of his way to appear knowledgeable and in-control when speaking of his prior sexual encounters (to the point where he comes off as a smirking, smarmy douchebag). Does not mention an interest in bottoming or being submissive, even when I tell him that I enjoy topping/being dominant.
Then we hook up and the Casanova veneer quickly falls away, revealing a boy who wants to be tied up and gives every indication of getting extremely turned on by me taking control and being (somewhat) rough with him…but aside from asking to be restrained (which must be a huuuuge desire for him to make him overcome his reticence) he doesn’t ask me to be rough. And he even invents a bullshit, non-submission-related excuse for the tying up.
My feeling is that this boy is submissive, or at least really bottomy, but in fairly deep denial about it because he’s been socialized that men aren’t supposed to be like that. He’s also not a great communicator – he only seems to tell me his sexual needs under extreme duress, like if he needs me to stop doing something because it hurts. Even when I specifically ask “do you like what I’m doing?” during bedroom stuff, he’ll just kind of nod/dodge the question/whatever.
It probably won’t work to ask him outright if he has a submissive streak, or even to ask him if he has any fantasies he’d like me to fulfill. I don’t think he’d be able to say the words. And yet, I find his submissive leanings SUPER FUCKING HOT and want to bring him out of his shell so we can explore them properly.
How would you handle this, if you were me? Or how would you want it handled if you were him?
hiding in plain sight 
Ummmm… You could tie him to the bed, then play a communication “game”. XD
You’re a more patient person than I am; I would have already said all the blunt things you’ve written about wanting to say.
That is actually exactly my idea: tie him up and then tell him I’ll do whatever he wants me to (within my normal limits) but only if he asks me. And he has to be specific: if he says “put your hand on me” I’ll plunk it on his chest. He has to say “put your hand on my penis and [instructions on how to move it]” if he’s actually looking for a hand job.
I fear that this will freak him out and he’ll clam up, though, so maybe I need to start smaller? I dunno.
I do know that I have to stop letting his huge assumption of silence swallow me up. I need to just blithely communicate to him like I would with any other partner, and hopefully that will rub off on him instead of his tense silence rubbing off on me.
This was my first thought too 😀 When I was a lot younger (like, early teens, maybe even pre-teens), I knew I had a submissive streak but I didn’t know what to do with it and thought expressing it in any way meant I was basically an immoral slut. I tried to talk about it once or twice to people, but the words died in my throat. So my number one fantasy involved being tied up and forced to *talk*, basically being interrogated about all my likes and dislikes: “Have you ever fantasized about x? What would you do if I did y right now? Tell me the thing you’d most like me to do right now.” My fantasy actually didn’t involve x and y actually happening at the time of the interrogation. It was really just about someone forcing me to talk, forcing me to break through that mental dam I had. I wanted to be forced to talk the same way some people might want to be forced to kneel or to expose themselves in public or whatever.
Now, I’ve mostly outgrown this particular fantasy. Somewhere along the way, I got over the idea that talking about sex = I am a huge worthless slut, so now I have fewer problems asking for exactly what I want (I consider my spoiled princessness a feature, not a bug ^_^). But maybe there’s a bit of a similarity between younger-me and The Pedant? That same aspect of a huge external pressure/socialization saying, “Do not talk about sex?” I can’t say, though, whether that pressure would manifest in him the same way it manifested in me. But, yeah, realistically, what’s the worst that could happen if you tied him up and asked him something and he didn’t answer and clammed up?
I thought about this for a little bit and only ONE thing really makes sense to me about Pedent. Is it possible that he isn’t submissive per se. As in he either wouldn’t or couldn’t submit with other Dominants but he IS able to submit to you for whatever reason? Maybe that trust is availible to you but NOT to others.
If I were a new submissive again I would want a kinky sampler platter. My first dominant was a jerk and if I had it to do over I would want to try a lot of things and try them SLOWLY as a sort of experiment to see what I did and didn’t like. Maybe try one new thing whenever you guys get together. If it isn’t his thing he can say no.
Maybe tell him YOU have always wanted to try tossing camels to gauge his reaction. If he truely doesn’t want to try tossing camels you can ask what he would like to do instead. Tell him you refuse to tie him up (or something he really does want) until he opens up to you and expresses something he hasn’t done or something he hasn’t done with you.
When you are being dominated its a lot easier to express yourself in a scene because at that point the choice and decisions are no longer yours. Therefor the responsibility of saying you would rather chuck a rhinocerous is your dominants. “S/He made me do it”
This is just my perspective. He sounds startlingly new and as if he hasn’t done much. The only other guess I have is that he is so attracted to you that he indulges your kinks because he is just that intrested in you. Again he might not be A submissive but only open to the idea of being YOUR submissive.
He could also be new. Remember back when you were a minor and there was absolutely NO such thing as a boy who had no sexual experience? EVEN though none of them would’ve known what to do with a girl if she literally sat on his face?
Men would rather die sometimes then admit a female outranks him in skill or experience. Have you considered just SAYing that you have always wanted to try something that you may have dome with someone else but maybe haven’t tried with Pedent?
Ok so maybe there are a few theories, but I really do hope I helped. This is all just my perspective so please don’t be offended.
-Me
Is it possible that he isn’t submissive per se. As in he either wouldn’t or couldn’t submit with other Dominants but he IS able to submit to you for whatever reason?
That would be the hottest thing EVAR, but I’m not gonna get my hopes up. I seem to recall that he has one story (although, only one…that he’s mentioned…) of being tied up all day and used as a sex toy, so obviously he’s been able to ask at least one girl before me to put him in bondage (or else it was all her idea and that’s what started his whole kink).
If I were a new submissive again I would want a kinky sampler platter.
I totally want to ask him what kinds of things he’d like to try…but I bet he wouldn’t be able to answer me. Your “camel-throwing” example is a good one…if I phrase it like “here’s a thing I’d like to do; what do you think?” then if he likes it he can consent to it and feel like he’s not really admitting to anything, just going along with me for my sake. 😀
I, too, get the vibe that he hasn’t done much. I’d be willing to bet that I’m the first woman he’s been with who’s actually dominant (not just open to tying him up to “spice things up” or whatever).
Men would rather die sometimes then admit a female outranks him in skill or experience.
I’m certain he’s one of those guys. Which is totally a pain in the ass. I have much to teach him if he’d open up and let me…
This is all just my perspective so please don’t be offended.
Well, see, I like what I know of you so far and you make comments that are clearly well-thought-out (not trolling) so I don’t think you could offend me. At most, you might misinterpret a situation and give advice that doesn’t apply – but if that were the case I’d just say so. 🙂
Imma propose some big-time camel-throwing next time I see him. 😀 😀 😀
I hate to put it in these terms, but I think you need to approach it like dog training, not in the sense that he is sub-human life form or that stupid gender BS that men in general need to be trained, but in the very clear and delineated expectations and unmistakeable feedback in the moment with zero wiggle room. I think this is necessary especially as he may be non-NT and needs really clear and stark boundaries because he can’t or is not reading between the lines.
When he acts in accordance with what you have clearly asked for, give LOTS of positive reinforcement. When he goes against something you’ve expressed (like moving you around/acting dominant in the playacting way/continuing to override what you know you want and have expressed/comparing with other lovers), there needs to be swift and sharp negative feedback IN THAT MOMENT, as in the sexy time comes to a screeching halt, you express what is not working for you and why (again), and that’s it; turn on the TV, send him home, make a sandwich and try again tomorrow or the next day (not in the next 10 min or an hour from now).
In the middle stuff, if he says something semi-offensive/pedantic or refuses to clearly expresses his wants/needs, you ignore it completely and do not react either positively or negatively (because either one is considered “a reaction” and thus his tactic has had an effect); wait for him to try again or figure it out or ask a leading question that FORCES him to act/speak/express.
However, this DOES mean a lot of effort on your part as well as a willingness to stop the sexy times when the negative stuff arises (thus establishing the consequences) and also being able to quell your own urges to let things go/smooth things over/make nice/try to guess at what he wants. Whether you want to do all this for a friends with benefits/fuck buddy is a tough decision, but if you really like this guy and see some longterm association, it may be well worth it. But please don’t keep muddling along in the middle…I think this boy is well intentioned but need to learn how to listen and how to talk more effectively.
I hate to put it in these terms, but I think you need to approach it like dog training
Agreed. This is precisely why I wish I’d just said “NO” and exited the shower the moment The Pedant said “I had sex with this girl once who -” 😀
It’s hard for me to “make a scene” when someone pisses me off (and saying “No, I don’t like that. No more sex for you!” is making a scene, to me. I know it’s a lot more tame than having a screaming tantrum, but still). Also…female characters in movies and tv shows often react to a guy’s bedroom gaffes with “OMG you have KILLED THE MOOD! I don’t feel like having sex anymore!” but to be honest…most of the time it doesn’t work like that with me. Unless the guy’s mistake is truly grievous (like The Pedant’s ill-timed shower-sex story) I just get annoyed while still totally wanting to fuck. So stopping the sexytimes dead will punish me just as much as him. 😛
But I think I need to try.
It’s true that The Pedant is just a FWB…but he’s crazy hot and seems to be a lot more of a sub than I’d previously realized, and I’ve largely been enjoying our bedroom antics. So there’s enough raw material there that I’m willing to try to work on improving him. For now.
Also, maybe you could sit him down and say something like, “I like you a lot and want to keep seeing you, but I really need you to not do x, y, and z, because those things make me feel shitty.” Maybe he’s one of those people that needs things to be *very* clearly spelled out, and very clearly aimed at *him*. I wonder if comments like what you said to him about not talking about exes during sexytimes just goes right over his head because of his Asperger’s or whatever.
He seems like a weird mix of shitty assumptions and good intentions.
Or just do what Kaija said, ’cause that makes sound sense.
Maybe he’s one of those people that needs things to be *very* clearly spelled out, and very clearly aimed at *him*. I wonder if comments like what you said to him about not talking about exes during sexytimes just goes right over his head because of his Asperger’s or whatever.
I think you are exactly right. Maybe it’s not the Asperger’s – maybe he’s just so un-self-aware that he has no idea how he comes off to people – but either way, a lot of my comments seem to fly right over his head. I will try being more specific in future.
He seems like a weird mix of shitty assumptions and good intentions.
Yes, this.
I read a quote somewhere: “Girls love a sick child or a healthy animal. A man who’s both itches them like an incubus.” And I hate hate hate coming off like a stereotypical girl who “loves asshole guys” or “wants to fix a guy” or whateverthefuck, but I think The Pedant is totally a sick child/healthy animal, and that it’s totally sucking me in. The way he seems so enviably confident in social situations, but privately tells me “Sometimes people suddenly stop liking me and I don’t understand why and I hate it…promise me if I ever offend you you’ll at least tell me how so I can understand!!!”…the way he’s not too verbally effusive with me but is increasingly offering me acts of service like a puppy fetching a ball…it’s hot.
Just to be clear, it’s only hot because a) he’s not a dick on purpose and b) he has specifically told me that he wants to fix his dickishness, and has asked for my help in doing so (good intentions, as you said). And I’m still willing to cut and run if I don’t see visible improvement soon. But the whole “crunchy manly coating with a warm gooey vulnerable centre” thing makes me tingle like whoa.
Also? I don’t think he realizes he’s physically attractive. Any time I’ve told him he’s pretty (or hot, or has a great ass or amazing pouty lips) he chuckles awkwardly in response and seems caught off guard. I luuuuuurve making pretty boys uncomfortable by objectifying them. RAWR.
That’s not objectifying. Objectifying is dehumanizing someone because you don’t care about anything but some tiny aspect of them that appeals to you. Like going up to you as an artist’s model and saying, “She’s got a great leg. I want to draw it sticking up in the air like THIS,” regardless of whether that’s at all a reasonable pose or whether they’re touching you without consent, because for the moment you’re just Human-Shaped Bendy Toy as far as they’re concerned.
Okay, I see your point.
But the other day I was trying to figure out why I like The Pedant and all I could come up with was a) he’s hot and b) he pays attention to me.
I do regard him as a human being and try to treat him ethically and with respect, yes. But his prettiness…is a pretty huge factor in why I hang out with him. And part of the reason I treat him ethically is because I like making out with his pretty face and if I do something nonconsensual to him, he might not let me do that anymore.
So…………I may not be literally objectifying him, but I don’t think I’m that far off. 😛
And wow, I’m really making myself sound like an asshole.
Thank you so much for the feedback cowgirl. I love this blog because I like how you interact with your readers. So many bloggers don’t.
From the sounds of him, I’d think that ‘tell me what you want’ is a bit too far for early on, even though it’s a great idea.
Maybe work up to that with a milder version, still make it a game, where it’s not about him, but about YOU wanting this from him because it’s hot.
You restrain him (mood setter) and then do ‘stuff’ and at your prompting, he has to verbally rate it on some sort of scale. You *could* do numbers (1 to 5) as it might be easier, but verbal would be hotter: “Don’t like”, “Is okay”, “Like”, “Love, more please!”, “OMFG!!!!!! YES!!” If he doesn’t give you a rating, you just stop the game.
Good luck!
Ferns
re: objectifying: if he understands the limits of your fucbuddy rlatonship, then I see no harm. The problem would begin if he would, start to fall in love with you.
He want to be a gentleman who makes you come record-breaking times, isn’t it so? Then tell him that hey, these and these and these are things YOU want, and then eh can permit himself to let free his submissiveness while legitimizing it by saying himself that it’s just a service he, as the perfect womanizer, is offering to you! And if he ends up enjoying it too much for his self-image, then it will be a great occasion for him to get real and face his kinks. 🙂
I think you are exactly right. 🙂