Somehow got into a discussion on Facebook re: online dating.  One person referred to dating sites as a way of “ascertaining whether you have actual things in common with someone you think is cute” and some other chick took issue with the idea that anyone would make cuteness a criterion in partner selection.  Apparently she could correspond with the frickin’ Elephant Man and if he had a good personality, she’d begin to find him beautiful.

I said that I don’t think it’s shallow at all to want to date someone you find aesthetically pleasing; in fact, it’s practical.  For most people, a romantic relationship entails a) sex and b) monogamy.  If you’re going to be having sex with just one person indefinitely, shouldn’t it be someone you want to have sex with?  I added, though, that a great personality really does make someone hotter to me, so I’m not insisting on only dating supermodels or anything like that – I just need to start out thinking a guy is moderately cute, is all.  Looks aren’t the only factor but they are a factor.

This chick responded basically by saying “Well, we all get old and wrinkly eventually.  Are you saying you’d dump your partner just because they got ‘worn out’ and you wanted something new and pretty?”  Um LOLWUT?  Since when does old = ugly?  And even if it did – even if I knew for a fact that any long-term partner I had would eventually look gross –  why does that mean I should forget about looks now?  Isn’t ten years of finding my partner attractive (and then they get old and gross) better than never finding them attractive at all?

I also mentioned that I spent almost a decade married to someone who was basically the opposite of my physical “type” and I’ve been in a long-term relationship since then with someone who was totally my physical type – and for me, the latter was infinitely better.  No, I wouldn’t end a good relationship just because the guy looked different than he used to – but I wouldn’t start a relationship with someone who didn’t look good to me, either.  Been there, done that, didn’t like it.

And this chick countered by saying that when you wake up with someone you’re truly in love with, you won’t be put off by his messy hair or unshaven face because you won’t even see those things – you’ll be looking into his soooooul (the implication, I guess, being that I’m clearly so picky about appearances that I vomit all over myself when my boyfriend has a bit of stubble or bedhead).  She ended by saying “whatever works for you works for you, but I need a deeper love than that.”

I wanna punch this bitch in the fucking face.


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16 responses to “Wow.

  1. Ah that whole argument is endless. I agree with you though. A degree of physical attractiveness is important!

    • I think so!

      If someone else isn’t all that visual, or is more flexible in what they find attractive, more power to them! I certainly wasn’t judging this woman or saying she should be more like me.

      But somehow this woman decided it was okay to judge me, and that when I say “I’d like to find a guy at least moderately cute before I’d consider dating him” I actually mean “I demand absolute aesthetic perfection above all else and have no idea what a deep emotional connection feels like.” WTF?!?

  2. Moz in Oz

    I think you’d have more fun just meeting some of her partners. I’m just taking a wild stab in the dark here, but I think you’d find they were mostly people she liked the look of.

    But yeah, it’s one of those arguments that you really can’t answer without changing the terms of the discussion. If someone starts from “it’s a human rights violation to discriminate on the grounds of appearance” that’s an unreasonable standard to apply to intimate relationships. Unless you can get that established there’s no point talking. There’s a disturbing parallel with people stuck in dead relationships, where I have to say “I’m with X because I like them, why are you with your partner?”

    • Honestly, I think most women who say they don’t care about looks are fooling themselves – they’ve bought into the whole idea that it would be “shallow”, so they’ve repressed it.

      Most women I’ve ever known in the “oh, I don’t even notice looks” camp have – at one point or another – swooned over a stranger because he was so hot. So…yeah.

      What bothered me most about this woman’s arguments, I think, is that she seemed to be assuming that loving someone’s appearance and loving their personality are two totally mutually exclusive things – therefore, my way of choosing partners clearly must lead to a “shallow” appearance-based love that’s less intense than her “pure” love that’s all about their beautiful soul. Because, you know, it’s impossible to approach someone based on their hotness and then find out that their personality is amazing and beautiful and compatible with yours.

      I get the strong feeling she considers herself unattractive and has a) internalized all the sour grapes bullshit about pretty people all secretly being jerks and unpretty people all being awesome if only you’d give them a chance, and b) she’s in a big panic to make everyone uphold the “caring about looks is shallow” ideal because if we didn’t, where would that leave her?

  3. marika grofno

    Because good women aren’t allowed to lust for someone, and who would trade their Good Girl status for pleasurable sex and a scarlet letter? That chick is so deep indoctrinated in patriachy the bullshit is clouding her eyes. Yay for being a slut, if that’s what it costs. (ps: if all women were self-sacrificing angels fucking guys they are creeped out by, teh population-level result would be a lot more of soulless, awful, pleasuress, crappy sex. For both parties, because I ehard sometomes guys want more than an immoble lump of flesh hating every moment of it, too.

    Block her on Facebook.

    • Agreed!

      What really gets me is, not everyone favours conventional attractiveness. Some of us (like me) are attracted to particular offbeat features that may be hideous to others. So I can in fact fulfill my “social duty” of making sure non “alphas” get laid (which I’m sure is what all the “shallow shaming” is actually about) while still getting what I want.

  4. Just A Slut

    And this is why I don’t do facebook. I think its best to be honest. If you have a hot man or woman you need never worry about lying over physical attraction. And besides this chick sounds kinda creepy. I’m not into people seeing my soul before coffee. Call me super ficial but I don’t think I’m terrible for wanting an attractive partner(s) who not only turn me on but won’t let themselves go. A good personality keeps me intrested longer. After awhile the pretty but dumb people bore me.

    And besides this chick is probably some funky 24/7 pajamma wearing chick who has atleast 3 cats and no date. Little beneath you to argue with someone who has low standards because its all she can realisticly hope for. Lol

    I don’t feel the need to prove myself and you shouldn’t either! You are great and have a life offline! Plus ýou make me laugh. That makes you a 10 to her maybe 1 and 1/2. (I’m stupidly generous before coffee lmfao)


    • The way I see it, being in love is not a constant thing. The feelings slide around a bit. There are “off” days. So yeah, I’ve fallen for guys (like my ex husband) who I wasn’t attracted to, and most of the time it was pretty okay – but on an “off” day I’d look at him and think “who the fuck is this person and why is he in my house?”

      On an “off” day with Minx I’d just look at him and think I wanted to fuck him.

      I think we have a clear winner here.

  5. Juuuuulia

    I get the feeling this girl is in the limerence stage of a relationship with someone that’s not *conventionally* attractive, which made her not realize that she *personally* finds him attractive? So instead, she concluded that it was true love that made him attractive to her, gave herself a huge cookie and is now lecturing everyone else. 😀

    • I was operating on the assumption that she considers herself unattractive and so she preaches “looks-don’t-matter”-ism because she’s afraid if people lapse into caring about looks, she’ll never get laid.

      But your theory makes sense, too. It’s pretty obvious to me that she took my statement of “if I’m gonna go out with a guy I wanna think he’s cute” to mean “I MUST HAVE A CONVENTIONALLY ATTRACTIVE MAN” – she’s got trouble figuring out the difference between “universally attractive” (which doesn’t even exist!) and “attractive to me.” If she felt attracted to someone whose looks were a bit off the beaten path, I bet she would ascribe the attraction to any damn thing other than “Huh, I guess I just have really specific/weird taste.”

      • Juuuuulia

        Yep! 😛 “I guess I have weird taste” isn’t as ego-boosting as “THIS MEANS I HAVE A MUCH DEEPER LOVE THAN OTHER PEOPLE, GO ME!”

  6. Just A Slut

    Yes there is a very clear winner! And again you are more intresting then some random who likely has no self esteem

  7. Anna

    I really like this line from Hugo Schwyzer (regardless of whatever else he has or hasn’t said or done, this line impacted my life for the better): “…there is a world of difference between being in a marriage in which the passion has cooled and one in which there was never any “heat” to begin with. Expecting sexual heat to endure (without any increase in effort) for years is unrealistic; settling for a marriage where there isn’t even any memory of fire and passion is, I think, too great a compromise.”
    What people find attractive is such a unique and personal thing, but I have a hard time imagining a person who can completely ignore the physical in romantic or sexual relationships. Apart from looks, there’s smell, body-language, voice, expressions…is that stuff also off limits for her?

    • She did indicate that liking someone’s body language and expressions is acceptable. It’s only horrible to be into someone’s actual appearance, I guess. Bone structure and hairstyle and whatnot.

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